Sunday, December 30, 2007

Point/Counter Point

Announcer: Tonight on Point/Counter Point, we address the 2007 Patriots. Specifically, this topic: After they lose in the playoffs, should their season be considered a successful one? Our panelists this evening, Braynt Gumbel and Chris Collinsworth. Gentlemen, you have the floor.

Gumbel: Thanks. I want to make it clear that I have no specific qualifications to give my opinion on this issue, but my laid back narrative style should lend itself to a soothing rhythm in this debate. To the point in hand, I think that despite their impending loss in the playoffs, the Patriots season has been a rousing success. No team has ever won such an amazing string of meaningless games by relentless 'stoning' the other team. The ride is ending soon sure, but it's been a thrill to watch. Kudos to the Boston Patriots for their perfect (mostly) season!

Collinsworth: This debate sets up perfectly for me because I can use both of my vocal tones. I'll start off with drone: The New England Brady's have been the greatest team I've ever seen, but I doubt very seriously whether I'll remember any of that after they lose. I'll find a way to say that I saw it coming, and blame the loss on something completely irrelevant like the Patriots just wanting to win TOO much. But back to the topic, Bryant, how can you possibly say that this season was a success for the Patriots? After their impending playoff loss, they'll forever be remembered as the football version of the 2004 Yankees. This season will be a failure both for them and for me personally, as I'll have to talk about other teams during Super Bowl week, and quite frankly I stopped paying attention to anything other than Tom Brady's ass about 3 months ago.

Gumbel: I think you're missing the point Chris. The playoff loss will only put the Pats in a more historic light. They'll go down with the great Bears teams of the 1930s that also choked in the playoffs. Being remembered forever makes you great. This team will invariably be remembered, therefore it's been a great season. Does this turtleneck make me look fat? I don't want to be confused with my brother.

Collinsworth: YOU CAN'T SAY THAT IN THAT SITUATION. IT'S JUST SLOPPY. I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE MOCKING THAT THEY WILL RECEIVE FROM THE OTHER TEAMS. THAT CAN GET INTO A GUY'S HEAD AND AFFECT HIS FUTURE PERFORMANCE. EVEN A BEAUTIFUL HEAD LIKE TOM BRADY'S WILL SUFFER AFTER THIS APPROACHING DEFEAT.

Gumbel: Well Chris, you are talking loudly, and I'm incompetent so I guess that you're right. What? We just missed a play? Oh well, that's the beauty of having a conversation with give and take, you don't have to get bogged down in little things like what actually happens on the field.

Collinsworth: We've finally found something we can agree on. It's just as well if I miss a play. I'd hate to have to actually watch a replay and give insight. It's too easy to do things like pointlessly question a player's toughness or state of mind. No one can prove me wrong about those things.

Announcer: Thank you gentlemen. This was enlightening. Next week we'll have John Madden and Chris Berman discuss whether BOOM! or Wooop wooop wooop! is more effective in analyzing the results of a play in football. This has been Point/Counter Point. Good night.

15 comments:

Bob M. said...

As C. Montgomery Burns would say... Excellent.

Anonymous said...

Let us put the Patriots' season in some perspective:

Their opponents have a combined 112 wins. That equates to a roughly 44% win percentage. The Colts have played teams with a combined 186 wins. That's 77%.

If you take out a single divisional game, you end up with about 12 wins per team. With the Patriots, they have 101 wins, which averages out to about 7 wins per team. If you were to field this schedule average team, they would win or tie 5 of 8 divisions. The Patriots schedule average wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

In conclusion, the Patriots miracle season is pretty much entirely due to the fact that they've played substandard competition. They've beaten up on weaker competition, and they're starting to show some big vulnerabilities. There's no question the Pats are ripe for an upset, and it's not unreasonable to think the Jags could do it.

JC said...

Now that I made it home with one eye closed, let me say.......Hater!

Bob and DZ:

I have plenty of common sense.

But that doesn't change the fact that I'm a bad person. In fact, I'm a terrible person. I still didn't kill someone tonight like Jim Leyritz, even though I drove drunker than he probably did.

Some day I MIGHT run someone over and I hope it's someone as self-righteous as you guys. Or as self-righteous as Coach "Ashy Larry" Dungy.

I'm happy that a quarterback with an illegitimate kid broke Manning's record.

I'm happy that a coach that records defensive signals went 16-0.

I'm happy that the team I live and die for alienates and infuriates squares like yourselves from all over the country.

I hope no matter how hard you try and try and try (and you guys do) that you can't diminish a 19-0 season.

I hope I see you clowns in the parking lot at Gillette (although you're probably too busy/broke to make it there) and I throw a beer in your face.

Does that sound immature? YES! It is!

I'm a sore loser, a bad winner, and a flat-out lousy human being.

But it's my team. And THEY went 16-0.

Hate all want. You never did it....and we still have more rings than you do.

Unless you're Bob the Yankee/Colt fan - however the hell that works.

zac said...

jc- Will we ever hear from you again after your boys go down in flames in three weeks? Or will you just slink quietly into your dark night?

Bragging about driving drunk. You just topped your own personal high in hilarious comments I'm sure. Any time in the future that you want to refer to yourself as a level headed human being, I will just link to this comment, and that should speak for itself. Again, well done jc, you argue against yourself and others Pats fans like you better than we ever could.

I just hope bragging on an opponents website and crusading against their lack of objectivity is the height of your personal satisfaction.

Deshawn Zombie said...

yeah, gotta say man, that was single most disturbing thing written by a Pats fan yet. I'm telling you dude, you aren't selling your club very well. Just don't hurt anyone after the collapse in January dude.

jc said...

I suppose it was written with intent to disturb, not to be confused with intent to distribute.

Which, coincidentally, is the "height of my personal satisfaction".

Deshawn Zombie said...

um, disturb and scare aren't the same thing. To disturb people isn't a noble aim, it's sort of pathetic. If that's your life goal, it's little wonder you like the Pats.

Joel said...

Nice post, that was great.

And jc...wow man. Just...wow. I read a lot of babbling nonsense from sports fans all over the internet, much of it with the coherence of a 4th-grade dropout. But I can't remember reading anything as ridiculous, hateful, and just downright stupid as to make fun of a real life tragedy like the person how got killed by Leyritz, and then to extend that to saying you hope you can do that to Dungy. I used to think that you were at least a reasonably level-headed Pats homer. Now I just pity you. I hope you were really drunk when you wrote all that, because if you really meant it, then I'm sorry, but you're just a pathetic excuse for a human being.

jc said...

Boy are you guys sensitive.

Just because I wrote that stuff, do you really think I mean it?

Of course I do!

No I don't. I don't want to kill someone in a drunk driving accident (but I'd make an exception for Dungy - sober).

And if you go back and read it, I pretty much stipulated that I'm a bad person. So all your "wow you're such a bad person" mumbo-jumbo is essentially just reiterating what I had already told you.

When Peyton Manning broke Marino's record in 2004, were there Dolphin Fans spread out all over the web posting statistical comparisons and percentages of attempts and all that garbage to discredit his accomplishment?

There might have been...that was a honest question.

And this "anonymous" clown to my left who wrote the whole substandard competition post? Yea our division sucks, sure.

But we beat the #2, #3 and #4 seeds in the AFC, and the #1 in the NFC, plus Cleveland, the Giants and Washington. That's seven playoff teams. Not to mention the other 9 friggin games we played.

Joel: Lose the moral compass. Nice guys finish last man.

Anonymous said...

Check that. Cleveland getting in depends on the Colts winning I believe.

Joel said...

jc: Not that you care one lick, but based on your last couple posts, I'm going to operate under the assumption from here on out that you are a troll, and are not worth wasting time responding to.

I suggest others do the same.


(for the unfamiliar, Wikipedia defines an Internet Troll as "someone who posts controversial messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response.")

Bob M. said...

Sorry Joel, I agree with you, but can't resist because of the power of semantics.

JC, I did not mean to imply you are a bad person.

Just inferior.

And your lashing out indicates that you know it, too.

Just go to bed tonight knowing you have our pity.

PatsRule said...

"In conclusion, the Patriots miracle season is pretty much entirely due to the fact that they've played substandard competition."
Of course you're right. They've only beaten The Colts (defending SB champs, in an away game), The Cowboys (NFC's best, in an away game), the Chargers (whom they destroyed like Dallas), the Steelers (ditto), The Redskins (mega-ditto) and the Giants.
I believe those are all playoff teams. The Pats may be playing in one of the weakest divisions, but that's hardly something they have control over.

"The Pats are ripe for an upset."
Careful - you sound like some "jerk kicker!"

Deshawn Zombie said...

Yeah, for the record, I don't buy the 'substandard competition' argument. The Pats have had a weird schedule with a lot of teams at the top and and at the bottom. They did play the NFC East which was a tough division, but one which was bolstered by beating up on the rest of the AFC East. Bottom line is the beat all comers including the Colts and Cowboys on the road. I have no real problem with their schedule.

I think the Pats are an all time great team. I also think that Indy is too. I think whoever survives the AFC Championship game will be remembered as one of the great teams in history. Either a 19-0, 4X champion Pats squad, or more likely in my eyes, a great Colts team with dominant offense and defense repeating as champion. We are lucky to live in such heady times. It's going to be epic.

King Ding Aling said...

Fact is the Pats PWNED you herbs from Indy.